@Unknown My copy of the 2004 Techno Pop album has no dropout at that point during track 2, and there's no evidence anywhere of "crackly sound" either. Very strange…
I have the 2004 remasters and overall I'm happy with them. I feel no need to purchase the 2009 set. "The Man Machine" is indeed a marked improvement over the original issue. I have a question about the 2004 "Technopop" disc. I've noticed slightly crackly sound throughout, giving it an almost analog sound. I've also noticed a click or small drop-out at 2:46 of track 2. "Technopop." Is this the master recording or my disc?
Thanks for the thorough review! I'll take your advice and pick up the first four on vinyl and plunder .flac rips of the CDs.
-Damien
5:4
12 years ago
i would hardly call it a "glaring" anomaly (the ones on other albums are far more audible), but yes, it is there – and as you say, the original CD is fine at that point; ah, the ravages of time…
I'm surprised that in two and a half years no one has mentioned a fairly glaring sound anomaly in "The Model": from around 0:48 to 0:50, something thins out the sound, probably a sign of damage on the master tape. This is especially noticeable on headphones and wasn't present on the original CD.
Overall, though, I have grown to really like the sound of this box. I don't miss the old tape hiss anymore. I'm not sure what happened to "Computer World," though.
Anonymous
13 years ago
That is a great review!
Thanks a lot, but.. am I the only one who is hugely pissed with the band for changing the album covers? I mean, I can't even get close to these cd's, and of course I could never buy any of them.
It's really sad to see people trying to re-edit all factes of their previous works, as if they could freshen up themselves by adding a new pic here and a new art there.
Want to add something here. The panning I talked about was in Computer Love, around 0:50, actually it is a channel colapse.
While COMPUTERWORLD remaster is indeed a big big sloppy mistake, with muffled sound and saturated punches, the same is NOT TRUE for COMPUTERWELT. The German version of the album has been remastered in a total different way, and this should be really taken into account. The German version is actually an improvement over 1981 version.
The Computer World remaster has one big sloppy mistake, which I believe couldn't be corrected due to permanent tape damage – it is the panning about 0:50. Curiously the German version is not affected by this in the same way the English version was.
Reading the article made me see that these remasters followed some Mute Records rules. Recently, the label has been putting remasters out at a level of -5.50dBFS average. If the band did these remasters themselves, they followed some instructions by the label. Of course not all of them are that loud, particularly the early records from Kraftwerk.
I can confirm a saturation on right side of Autobahn, and others described track timing changes in the article. Stupid mistakes! Amateur job.
One will have a hard time to find out which version is more pleasant, but for that, must acquire every pressing out there and make a deeper analysis.
Excellent review! I first had listened to Computer World in an old cassete tape so I tought that the "curious panning" in Computer Love was a defect on the tape but when I finally got the CD it really surprised and confused me that it was actually the original sound! Thank you!
I've bought most of the CDs over the past ten years or so, excepting Autobahn. I must admit to downloading Autobahn as a torrent, in anticipation of ordering the set. I was pretty shocked at the obvious saturation in the right channel in particular. Is there an Autobahn CD that doesn't exhibit this?
A second question – I'm thinking of ordering the German language 2009 set, instead of the English, as a way to get a bit of the 'shock of the new'. Have you had a chance to hear any of those?
I have both the remastered version of Autobahn (2009) and a much older CD pressing by EMI Electrola I got around 1995. They both exhibit the same right channel saturation… I don’t know if there’s another version taken from a different source.
Hi Simon. Great Blog you have. Your comments on the catalogue 2009 was very helpfull. I was overthinking buying the catalogue 2009 but know i know not to.
thanks for your great review. I was wondering buying the catalogue 2009 or not. Now the answer is clear, no! I will buy the albums separately. Once again thank you for your useful comments on the remastered retrospective. Next to Kraftwerk your blog is a useful source of information.
Comparison tracks of the original and 2009 versions of Geiger Counter would be useful, just to illustrate how intrusive the noise reduction and compression is in places on the Radio Activity album. I have the 1987 German CD, as well as the new release, and though I will be getting rid of most of my old CDs I shall be keeping that one (as well as Electric Cafe).
Hi! I am a vinyl lover and I wonder if anyone knows how the remastered sound on vinyl and if they are 180 gr. or not…I also wonder if buying the cd would be more appropriate according to Kraftwerk intentions about these remastered versions moreover,as I don't have the german language versions these remastered could be a good chance to get them. any suggestions? thanx in advance for any response!
Radioaktivität itself has been completely butchered! Every time the whiplash percussion sound sounds, the rest of the sound dulls. Have they really applied an automatic noise filter here? This track now is unbearable to listen to!
And the 50Hz buzz in Sendepause/Nachrichten (Intermission/News) that was so well placed, exactly like an old radio sounds, gone!
5:4
14 years ago
Overall, i sympathise with what you're saying; my views about the more negative aspects of the remastered Catalogue are abundantly clear in my article – there's more than a little scope for improvement! Furthermore, on balance, i prefer the 2004 remasters to those of 2009; for albums like Autobahn & Radio-activity, 2009 didn't significantly change what they'd achieved in 2004; but obviously, in the case of Computer World & Techno Pop, things went from bad to abominable.
The Man-Machine is the one where i felt myself particularly torn. i stand by what i said; i do believe the remastering to be excellent – but again, more in the 2004 version than the somewhat over-compressed 2009 edition. i agree sequencing has to be a contributing factor to the excessive tape hiss audible throughout this album, & for me, it's a huge relief to hear that pretty much removed. The effect on the percussion on this album, i feel, is to reveal it for what it really is, harsh, raw & very striking (no pun intended) indeed; i don't find it to be 'constricted' here (but i do elsewhere, as i said).
It seems contradictory to me to say that you object to the noise reduction artefacts while not being bothered about the analogue artefacts from the original tapes; but nonetheless, i agree with you that something has been lost on Radio-activity; if there's anywhere in The Catalogue that hum, hiss & other noises are an integral part of the sound-world, it's there.
Thanks for your comments; i'm glad you found the article interesting.
A very informative analysis. Upon further listening, I really have to disagree with your contention that the 2009 Man Machine is in any way superior to the original CD. If you level match – i.e. reduce the jacked up volume of the remaster – and compare with the old edition, you'll notice that all of the tracks on the new edition exhibit slightly murky definition (due to the mid-bass bloat EQ and use of noise reduction software that plagues every disc in this set) and overall lack of sparkle.
It is interesting that you specifically mention "The Model". To my mind, this track most clearly exemplifies the problems with the entire remastered Kraftwerk remastered series. "The Model" has always suffered from a flat and rather sloppy (by Kraftwerk standards) mix, yes, but on the new edition it sounds even worse than it ever has. The engineers have attempted to artificially bring more life to it via the use of some ham-fisted EQ and compression, and the result is rather gruesome.
It is more readily apparent on "The Model," but listen carefully to all of the percussion tracks on any of the remasters from Autobahn through Computer World. The percussion sounds now come across as constricted – and all too often collapse into a slightly hazy, artificial mid-bass murk. What is missing is the space and vibrancy inherent to these recordings.
As for the original Man Machine] LP and CD containing more tape hiss than other Kraftwerk albums, yes, it did. I would surmise that this is due to the group's reliance on sequencer tracks during this period. Pre-recording the sequencer patterns undoubtedly added another generation or two of tape, but that was the nature of the recording method at that time. I am not particularly bothered by this.
What I *am* bothered by is the removal of these natural analogue artifacts, which results in an airless, dead-sounding sonic space, as the completely butchered Radio-Activity remaster will attest. On top of that, whoever was responsible for hiss removal on these remasters performed an amateurish job. There are too many obvious noise reduction artifacts apparent throughout this series. Either Ralf Hütter is now half-deaf (not unlikely) or simply doesn't care that much to be bothered to critically listen to the results (a real possibility).
The bottom line is that these new discs are in every conceivable way sonically inferior to the 20-year-old CDs.
Computer World is my all time favourite album and i also was disappointed when i heard the booming bass on the opening tracks. Last saturday i bought Der Katalog which of course includes Computerwelt (german version of the lp with the tracks sung in german). This one sounds surprisingly better. It still has more bass than you would like, but overall, there is a clearer sound to it. Peculiar, ain't it…
Greetings from Holland, boele
5:4
14 years ago
Thank you for the kind comments, Allen, i'm pleased you found my article useful. The more i think about it, the more annoyed i feel that Kraftwerk have allowed such dreadful remasterings of Computer World & Techno Pop – such a shame.
I thought the original was extremely informative and the recent additions, in respect of the 2009 remasters, have made this review even more of an essential read for any Kraftwerk fan.
It was very refreshing to find a site with such knowledgeable and in-depth posts.
As I already have all the Kraftwerk albums I was wondering whether buying/downloading the 2009 remasters would be a worthwhile use of my limited resources. I think you have answered that question for me.
Thank you.
5:4
14 years ago
Hi Markus, actually i should be thanking you for reminding me i needed to get the revision of my article finished; it's sat around 90% done for about a fortnight! i'm glad you found the review helpful.
Wow, what a speedy response to my comment of yesterday! 🙂
Thanks (again) for your detailed review.
Cheers.
Michael
8 years ago
Has anyone compared the 2009 Remaster of Computerwelt and Computerworld?
Denis Martinez
8 years ago
I feel some of the original masters were damaged as time went on, hence some of the mistakes. Whatever they couldn’t fix for these releases might have to do with the fact that they’re quite simply stuck to the recording and can’t really do anything to remove them without making it obvious. Granted, it could also be because they didn’t have the best equipment or didn’t care, which is unlikely.
Some have also mentioned the original German version getting it better in terms of remastering, due to the English ones just being dubbing over secondary copies. The most prominent one being Computer World, which I don’t think was made on a good master tape copy (though it was probably fine in its first years, as proven by the original target pressing, which is fantastic). It also makes me wonder if these were made as multi-tracks, given that it would be easier to remove mistakes.
I decided to get three out of the four you recommended (Autobahn, TEE, TMM), since I finally found them in an American shop (Barnes & Noble) for $10 each, which was a good deal. Considering I’ve been on the 2004 masters on my mp3 player for quite some time, this should be interesting. I actually think the harsher, colder sound of the new Techno Pop master actually makes it work in its favor, not forgetting to mention I’m the only person who likes the track list change. The Mix I also like, sine I like more bass in a house-esque album. Tour de France is the same, though the change in time stamps doesn’t bother me much. Computer World, as mentioned earlier, was at its best in its original target release. I even think it’s the best sounding Kraftwerk album mastering wise. Those are my thoughts in a nutshell.
Emmett O'Reilly
7 years ago
Great article, although you really should hear my US copy of The Man Machine CD. It’s got a version of The Model that’s at a massively higher volume level than the rest of the tracks and sounds like it was re-mastered for a single, then some smart boy took out the album version and replaced it with the single one, the first time I played it, I burst out laughing but it was the only version of the CD I could find at the time. Remastering is an artistic process and this can lead to differences in opinion about how something sounds but there are problems on these remasters that sound like what I would call digital editing rather than remastering as such. I wonder did they go back to the analogue masters again and redigitize them, for every track or just remaster the already-transferred digital copies. This review makes me think they did a mixture of both. Will download and listen before I buy.
C.
7 years ago
This is an interesting article. I am just getting into a couple of these records on the newer remasters. I am very impressed for the most part.
People talk about being over compressed but I don’t think people really have any clue what is possible with modern mastering. You guys are trying to say without any hint of comedic overtone that a DR10-12 recording is overly compressed lol. Yeah and no. These albums sound fantastic to my ears. That isn’t to say you might not prefer them to the older ones, but to say these are all crushed or compressed to hell is absolutely ludicrous.
DR6 is crushed. DR12 is damn near a classical music album, and nothing Kraftwerk does has that kind of dynamic range. They do not play classical instruments, and there are very few moments that need tons of dynamic range in their output. I very much appreciate the better bass on these records.
About noise reduction? Well thank you. I read how people think the job was done by amateurs, and that is completely laughable. We have arm chair engineers here who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
Thanks for this; for my part, i wasn’t trying to over-state the compression angle (the remarks in the opening paragraph are more to flag up the inherent dangers and mistakes made in too many ‘remastering’ projects these days). There are various tracks that i feel have suffered from being treated to too much compression (‘Sex Object’ for one), but overall i agree with you, it’s not as bad as it could have been.
C.
7 years ago
And to clarify that last comment, I am NOT saying this box is perfect. It is obviously not, and there are some problems. But let’s be honest here: tons of tape hiss when it doesn’t add anything of value is not cool. You inevitably have to use some sort of NR. And Man Machine and others benefit from this. I’ve never listened to Radio so that one may have been tampered with.
I stand by any comments on compression for the most part. These are fairly dynamic album remasters. As for the EQ people are going to have different opinions about that. But we all have to realize it is 2009, and these tapes are not in the best condition.
Still, the article is very useful, and people should track down and keep all of their existing versions as well.
C.
7 years ago
So I went back to the DR website to compare the old versions of these albums, and of course what do I find:
The old albums often peak around the -3dB to -5dB line even going as low as -6dB on a DR17 track, meaning they are not even close to using their full dynamic range. Never mind they lack bass throughout as well.
The newer CDs being DR9-DR14, peak at the the more normal -.2dB or so and go higher when needed. Peaks are important but routinely ignored by armchair idiots that do not understand modern capabilities of mastering sound. Music at DR16 does not always breathe more than music at DR12 when you have peaks that are exponentially lesser in volume. The old CDs are simply too quiet and do not even make use of the proper CD.
Now Computer World is a stranger case in some regards, as the English version is different than its German release, which sounds superb to my ears. The English one has more bass and also is definitely a bit more compressed than the others even its German counterpart. I don’t think the English one is from the same source. It’s nothing that is going to kill you, but it is worth mentioning. I honestly wasn’t too bothered by it. At any rate the German version is superior. In fact, I prefer the German versions of their music.
This article rightly celebrates the fact that the best albums in Trans and Man Machine have never really sounded better. And the German version of Computer World is amazing as well. DR9-13 does not mean the end of the world. I can’t even believe I have to say this. Often it means the engineers are actually using the full capabilities of the CD.
As for noise reduction it’s a slippery slope. But no one can really argue that Kraftwerk CDs were ever supposed to have all this analogue hiss lol. The exact opposite. KW are the forerunners of the digital revolution. That isn’t to say maybe there is some extra NR applied, but I don’t hear anything too egregious on the major albums.
Regarding your last remark, about hiss, the obvious exception is Radio-Activity: this is an album positively revelling in the glory of analogue sound sources, and to have the hiss removed on that album to my mind really diminishes it, removing something i regard as an inherent part of the music. But elsewhere i agree with you, particularly on Man-Machine, which now sounds wonderful in its hiss-free incarnation!
Of course the german versions are preferable since Kraftwerk is a german band. I don’t want to listen to the Beatles in German either….
C.
7 years ago
Techno-Pop is a DR11 remaster. There is no sheer loudness. It’s using the available dynamic range of the CD, which the old ones failed to do. This isn’t classical music either and does not need that kind of dynamic range.
I’m honestly just lost when you guys talk about loudness. It’s as if you are not properly volume matching anything. Turn down your volume knob. Almost no well mastered CD in existence is above DR13 for these types of albums anymore. This includes the majority of Steve Hoffman stuff. It just makes me wonder what you guys are smoking to think that DR11 is a loud album lol. No bud, DR6 is a loud album. DR11 is not even close.
C.
7 years ago
I also am starting to think I prefer the English versions of a decent amount of their songs. All together these remasters were fantastic. I think people are too blown out by the bass in Computer World. Their music is pretty bassy live believe it or not. I really don’t see the problem unless your system is not a neutral tone system. It still sounds pretty good to me.
i disagree with this; having seen Kraftwerk perform live, of course there’s more bass than on the studio recordings – but that doesn’t mean the albums should be made to resemble a live performance. Bits of the 2009 Computer World are nothing short of a travesty, robbing the music of its nuance and detail, and in no small part that’s due to the bass.
Disco-Pete
6 years ago
Thanks for such a in-depth and interesting article! I read this when it first appeared, and revisited it now after doing a thorough comparison with the 2009 remasters and the original 80s CDs.
I’ve come to the conclusion that, for me, the originals are much superior in every way to the remasters.
I definitely prefer the original CDs, which I guess are straight copies of the original LP masters, without the unnecessary tinkering found on the remastered versions.
In my opinion, the main offender is the constant use of digital noise reduction on these remasters. I’ll take clarity – complete with tape hiss – over the sterile-sounding remasters any day.
Listening to AUTOBAHN on headphones, you can clearly hear the watery, digital artifacts at the start of the title track. The use of noise reduction, combined with the sometimes heavy handed EQ boosting the bass, takes away the clarity of the original recordings. As you mentioned, COMPUTER WORLD sounds like a mess because of these EQ changes.
RADIO-ACTIVITY sounds mostly excellent in its original CD issue, without digital artifacts and boomy bass. This is a recording that’s supposed to have noises, hum, clicks and static.
TRANS EUROPA EXPRESS might sound a little weak compared to the remaster, which had its bass boosted quite a lot, but again I feel this affects the clarity. And then there’s that horrible noise reduction again. Listen to the intro of FRANZ SCHUBERT. The synth sounds like it’s about to choke and it ain’t pretty.
Another thing I haven’t seen anyone mention before is the added reverb during the “chorus” on SPIEGELSAAL. Why alter something like that?
As pointed out in the article above, there’s quite a lot of tape hiss on DIE MENSCH MASCHINE, but the original CD sounds very dynamic with good bass. Once again, the noise reduction is quite severe in places, giving the synths a “choked” kind of quality. If I want more thumping bass I can always turn up the bass knob on my stereo.
COMPUTERWELT is the only remastered version I’ve kept. From what I understand, the German version is slightly better than the English counterpart? I’ve listened to the English remaster and thought it sounded terrible because of the compression which made the “string/organ” sound in the title track pump like crazy.
The German remaster sounds very good, and adds some much needed punch to the album, which originally sounded kind of thin to my ears. But, the bass DO sound a bit bloated at times, and the remaster can sometimes sound a bit boxy, especially compared with the original CD… But I can live with that. I think.
The remaster of ELECTRIC CAFE, or TECHNO POP as they seem to call it now, is a pointless exercise in revisionism. I have a Japanese “Black Triangle” CD which sounds great and I’m sticking with that. Sound-wise, I get the feeling they just raised the volume on the remaster.
The same goes for THE MIX and TOUR DE FRANCE.
This turned into a long post. Sorry.
Mark Brogden
6 years ago
Yes, 2009 Computer World not just a bit overcooked like so many digital remasters which are often the only choice on streaming such as with Spotify, but it’s actually ruined in my opinion. Upper mid / high frequencies seem to drop in and out regularly. Check out Computer Love – in particular between about 54 and 59 seconds – there’s a significant drop in higher frequencies, especially on the left channel – it’s almost as if someone tweaked down an eq gain pot, thought ‘no I don’t like that’, and quickly returned it to the original position. I find it unbelievable that this album passed any checking stages. Surely Kraftwerk cannot be involved in the process – I would say they are the last people on this planet that would allow poor production work to be passed and released. However, I can’t imagine they’re not aware?!
Tom Stickland
5 years ago
I had the cassette version The Mix that I bought in around 1992. That had an editing glitch in the outro where they chopped out a whole beat. I’ll have to see if that was in any other versions.
Michel André Jouveaux
4 years ago
What a truly excellent, thorough, well-written review. Being a bit of a completist I actually added both the 2004 promo box and the 2009 version to my collection – I’ve only started to compare, but so far I largely agree with your comments. I’m a little less positive on Radioactivity remastered than you are though – I do agree that the hiss removal essentially changes the nature and color of the album as it takes away much of the noise I assumed was deliberate from it :). But to me the loss in character that results from that newfound cleanliness more than offsets the benefits of the extra sense of clarity and frequency range extension throughout. Autobahn and TEE / TMM (that’s where I’ve stopped so far) are no brainer wins for the remasters (2004 / 2009 / 2004 for me respectively), but for Radioactivity the late 80’s CD remains my go-to version. Thank you so much for the article – and also for pointing me in the direction of the German language remaster of Komputerwelt, will seek that one out when this confinement thing is over.
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@Unknown My copy of the 2004 Techno Pop album has no dropout at that point during track 2, and there's no evidence anywhere of "crackly sound" either. Very strange…
I have the 2004 remasters and overall I'm happy with them. I feel no need to purchase the 2009 set. "The Man Machine" is indeed a marked improvement over the original issue.
I have a question about the 2004 "Technopop" disc. I've noticed slightly crackly sound throughout, giving it an almost analog sound. I've also noticed a click or small drop-out at 2:46 of track 2. "Technopop." Is this the master recording or my disc?
Thanks for the thorough review!
I'll take your advice and pick up the first four on vinyl and plunder .flac rips of the CDs.
-Damien
i would hardly call it a "glaring" anomaly (the ones on other albums are far more audible), but yes, it is there – and as you say, the original CD is fine at that point; ah, the ravages of time…
I'm surprised that in two and a half years no one has mentioned a fairly glaring sound anomaly in "The Model": from around 0:48 to 0:50, something thins out the sound, probably a sign of damage on the master tape. This is especially noticeable on headphones and wasn't present on the original CD.
Overall, though, I have grown to really like the sound of this box. I don't miss the old tape hiss anymore. I'm not sure what happened to "Computer World," though.
That is a great review!
Thanks a lot, but.. am I the only one who is hugely pissed with the band for changing the album covers? I mean, I can't even get close to these cd's, and of course I could never buy any of them.
It's really sad to see people trying to re-edit all factes of their previous works, as if they could freshen up themselves by adding a new pic here and a new art there.
Very nice blog anyway, will stay around.
Vins
Want to add something here. The panning I talked about was in Computer Love, around 0:50, actually it is a channel colapse.
While COMPUTERWORLD remaster is indeed a big big sloppy mistake, with muffled sound and saturated punches, the same is NOT TRUE for COMPUTERWELT. The German version of the album has been remastered in a total different way, and this should be really taken into account. The German version is actually an improvement over 1981 version.
The Computer World remaster has one big sloppy mistake, which I believe couldn't be corrected due to permanent tape damage – it is the panning about 0:50. Curiously the German version is not affected by this in the same way the English version was.
Reading the article made me see that these remasters followed some Mute Records rules. Recently, the label has been putting remasters out at a level of -5.50dBFS average. If the band did these remasters themselves, they followed some instructions by the label. Of course not all of them are that loud, particularly the early records from Kraftwerk.
I can confirm a saturation on right side of Autobahn, and others described track timing changes in the article. Stupid mistakes! Amateur job.
One will have a hard time to find out which version is more pleasant, but for that, must acquire every pressing out there and make a deeper analysis.
Damn…
Excellent review!
I first had listened to Computer World in an old cassete tape so I tought that the "curious panning" in Computer Love was a defect on the tape but when I finally got the CD it really surprised and confused me that it was actually the original sound!
Thank you!
Amazing review man! Even for the not-audiophile people like me. 🙂
Absolutely fantastic review, thanks so much!
I've bought most of the CDs over the past ten years or so, excepting Autobahn. I must admit to downloading Autobahn as a torrent, in anticipation of ordering the set. I was pretty shocked at the obvious saturation in the right channel in particular. Is there an Autobahn CD that doesn't exhibit this?
A second question – I'm thinking of ordering the German language 2009 set, instead of the English, as a way to get a bit of the 'shock of the new'. Have you had a chance to hear any of those?
Thanks again. Excellent post.
I have both the remastered version of Autobahn (2009) and a much older CD pressing by EMI Electrola I got around 1995. They both exhibit the same right channel saturation… I don’t know if there’s another version taken from a different source.
Hi Simon. Great Blog you have. Your comments on the catalogue 2009 was very helpfull. I was overthinking buying the catalogue 2009 but know i know not to.
grtz.
jonnie
netherlands
Hi Simon,
thanks for your great review. I was wondering buying the catalogue 2009 or not. Now the answer is clear, no! I will buy the albums separately. Once again thank you for your useful comments on the remastered retrospective. Next to Kraftwerk your blog is a useful source of information.
jonnie
the netherlands
Hi! Discovered this blog via the Dubstar website.
Thank you for this excellent retrospective. I have already bought he box set but have not opened it yet so this has been a good read.
Many thanks for this excellent blog!
Comparison tracks of the original and 2009 versions of Geiger Counter would be useful, just to illustrate how intrusive the noise reduction and compression is in places on the Radio Activity album. I have the 1987 German CD, as well as the new release, and though I will be getting rid of most of my old CDs I shall be keeping that one (as well as Electric Cafe).
I wished for scans.
Found this instead, on the wiki:
It's still a tie.
Hi! I am a vinyl lover and I wonder if anyone knows how the remastered sound on vinyl and if they are 180 gr. or not…I also wonder if buying the cd would be more appropriate according to Kraftwerk intentions about these remastered versions moreover,as I don't have the german language versions these remastered could be a good chance to get them. any suggestions? thanx in advance for any response!
Thank you! This was exactly what I was looking for. Great post, that has probably saved me quite a bit of money.
Nice blog too.
Radioaktivität itself has been completely butchered! Every time the whiplash percussion sound sounds, the rest of the sound dulls. Have they really applied an automatic noise filter here? This track now is unbearable to listen to!
And the 50Hz buzz in Sendepause/Nachrichten (Intermission/News) that was so well placed, exactly like an old radio sounds, gone!
Overall, i sympathise with what you're saying; my views about the more negative aspects of the remastered Catalogue are abundantly clear in my article – there's more than a little scope for improvement! Furthermore, on balance, i prefer the 2004 remasters to those of 2009; for albums like Autobahn & Radio-activity, 2009 didn't significantly change what they'd achieved in 2004; but obviously, in the case of Computer World & Techno Pop, things went from bad to abominable.
The Man-Machine is the one where i felt myself particularly torn. i stand by what i said; i do believe the remastering to be excellent – but again, more in the 2004 version than the somewhat over-compressed 2009 edition. i agree sequencing has to be a contributing factor to the excessive tape hiss audible throughout this album, & for me, it's a huge relief to hear that pretty much removed. The effect on the percussion on this album, i feel, is to reveal it for what it really is, harsh, raw & very striking (no pun intended) indeed; i don't find it to be 'constricted' here (but i do elsewhere, as i said).
It seems contradictory to me to say that you object to the noise reduction artefacts while not being bothered about the analogue artefacts from the original tapes; but nonetheless, i agree with you that something has been lost on Radio-activity; if there's anywhere in The Catalogue that hum, hiss & other noises are an integral part of the sound-world, it's there.
Thanks for your comments; i'm glad you found the article interesting.
A very informative analysis. Upon further listening, I really have to disagree with your contention that the 2009 Man Machine is in any way superior to the original CD. If you level match – i.e. reduce the jacked up volume of the remaster – and compare with the old edition, you'll notice that all of the tracks on the new edition exhibit slightly murky definition (due to the mid-bass bloat EQ and use of noise reduction software that plagues every disc in this set) and overall lack of sparkle.
It is interesting that you specifically mention "The Model". To my mind, this track most clearly exemplifies the problems with the entire remastered Kraftwerk remastered series. "The Model" has always suffered from a flat and rather sloppy (by Kraftwerk standards) mix, yes, but on the new edition it sounds even worse than it ever has. The engineers have attempted to artificially bring more life to it via the use of some ham-fisted EQ and compression, and the result is rather gruesome.
It is more readily apparent on "The Model," but listen carefully to all of the percussion tracks on any of the remasters from Autobahn through Computer World. The percussion sounds now come across as constricted – and all too often collapse into a slightly hazy, artificial mid-bass murk. What is missing is the space and vibrancy inherent to these recordings.
As for the original Man Machine] LP and CD containing more tape hiss than other Kraftwerk albums, yes, it did. I would surmise that this is due to the group's reliance on sequencer tracks during this period. Pre-recording the sequencer patterns undoubtedly added another generation or two of tape, but that was the nature of the recording method at that time. I am not particularly bothered by this.
What I *am* bothered by is the removal of these natural analogue artifacts, which results in an airless, dead-sounding sonic space, as the completely butchered Radio-Activity remaster will attest. On top of that, whoever was responsible for hiss removal on these remasters performed an amateurish job. There are too many obvious noise reduction artifacts apparent throughout this series. Either Ralf Hütter is now half-deaf (not unlikely) or simply doesn't care that much to be bothered to critically listen to the results (a real possibility).
The bottom line is that these new discs are in every conceivable way sonically inferior to the 20-year-old CDs.
Great in-depth analysis!
Computer World is my all time favourite album and i also was disappointed when i heard the booming bass on the opening tracks. Last saturday i bought Der Katalog which of course includes Computerwelt (german version of the lp with the tracks sung in german). This one sounds surprisingly better. It still has more bass than you would like, but overall, there is a clearer sound to it. Peculiar, ain't it…
Greetings from Holland,
boele
Thank you for the kind comments, Allen, i'm pleased you found my article useful. The more i think about it, the more annoyed i feel that Kraftwerk have allowed such dreadful remasterings of Computer World & Techno Pop – such a shame.
Thank you for an excellent review.
I thought the original was extremely informative and the recent additions, in respect of the 2009 remasters, have made this review even more of an essential read for any Kraftwerk fan.
It was very refreshing to find a site with such knowledgeable and in-depth posts.
As I already have all the Kraftwerk albums I was wondering whether buying/downloading the 2009 remasters would be a worthwhile use of my limited resources. I think you have answered that question for me.
Thank you.
Hi Markus, actually i should be thanking you for reminding me i needed to get the revision of my article finished; it's sat around 90% done for about a fortnight! i'm glad you found the review helpful.
Wow, what a speedy response to my comment of yesterday! 🙂
Thanks (again) for your detailed review.
Cheers.
Has anyone compared the 2009 Remaster of Computerwelt and Computerworld?
I feel some of the original masters were damaged as time went on, hence some of the mistakes. Whatever they couldn’t fix for these releases might have to do with the fact that they’re quite simply stuck to the recording and can’t really do anything to remove them without making it obvious. Granted, it could also be because they didn’t have the best equipment or didn’t care, which is unlikely.
Some have also mentioned the original German version getting it better in terms of remastering, due to the English ones just being dubbing over secondary copies. The most prominent one being Computer World, which I don’t think was made on a good master tape copy (though it was probably fine in its first years, as proven by the original target pressing, which is fantastic). It also makes me wonder if these were made as multi-tracks, given that it would be easier to remove mistakes.
I decided to get three out of the four you recommended (Autobahn, TEE, TMM), since I finally found them in an American shop (Barnes & Noble) for $10 each, which was a good deal. Considering I’ve been on the 2004 masters on my mp3 player for quite some time, this should be interesting. I actually think the harsher, colder sound of the new Techno Pop master actually makes it work in its favor, not forgetting to mention I’m the only person who likes the track list change. The Mix I also like, sine I like more bass in a house-esque album. Tour de France is the same, though the change in time stamps doesn’t bother me much. Computer World, as mentioned earlier, was at its best in its original target release. I even think it’s the best sounding Kraftwerk album mastering wise. Those are my thoughts in a nutshell.
Great article, although you really should hear my US copy of The Man Machine CD. It’s got a version of The Model that’s at a massively higher volume level than the rest of the tracks and sounds like it was re-mastered for a single, then some smart boy took out the album version and replaced it with the single one, the first time I played it, I burst out laughing but it was the only version of the CD I could find at the time. Remastering is an artistic process and this can lead to differences in opinion about how something sounds but there are problems on these remasters that sound like what I would call digital editing rather than remastering as such. I wonder did they go back to the analogue masters again and redigitize them, for every track or just remaster the already-transferred digital copies. This review makes me think they did a mixture of both. Will download and listen before I buy.
This is an interesting article. I am just getting into a couple of these records on the newer remasters. I am very impressed for the most part.
People talk about being over compressed but I don’t think people really have any clue what is possible with modern mastering. You guys are trying to say without any hint of comedic overtone that a DR10-12 recording is overly compressed lol. Yeah and no. These albums sound fantastic to my ears. That isn’t to say you might not prefer them to the older ones, but to say these are all crushed or compressed to hell is absolutely ludicrous.
DR6 is crushed. DR12 is damn near a classical music album, and nothing Kraftwerk does has that kind of dynamic range. They do not play classical instruments, and there are very few moments that need tons of dynamic range in their output. I very much appreciate the better bass on these records.
About noise reduction? Well thank you. I read how people think the job was done by amateurs, and that is completely laughable. We have arm chair engineers here who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
Thanks for this; for my part, i wasn’t trying to over-state the compression angle (the remarks in the opening paragraph are more to flag up the inherent dangers and mistakes made in too many ‘remastering’ projects these days). There are various tracks that i feel have suffered from being treated to too much compression (‘Sex Object’ for one), but overall i agree with you, it’s not as bad as it could have been.
And to clarify that last comment, I am NOT saying this box is perfect. It is obviously not, and there are some problems. But let’s be honest here: tons of tape hiss when it doesn’t add anything of value is not cool. You inevitably have to use some sort of NR. And Man Machine and others benefit from this. I’ve never listened to Radio so that one may have been tampered with.
I stand by any comments on compression for the most part. These are fairly dynamic album remasters. As for the EQ people are going to have different opinions about that. But we all have to realize it is 2009, and these tapes are not in the best condition.
Still, the article is very useful, and people should track down and keep all of their existing versions as well.
So I went back to the DR website to compare the old versions of these albums, and of course what do I find:
The old albums often peak around the -3dB to -5dB line even going as low as -6dB on a DR17 track, meaning they are not even close to using their full dynamic range. Never mind they lack bass throughout as well.
The newer CDs being DR9-DR14, peak at the the more normal -.2dB or so and go higher when needed. Peaks are important but routinely ignored by armchair idiots that do not understand modern capabilities of mastering sound. Music at DR16 does not always breathe more than music at DR12 when you have peaks that are exponentially lesser in volume. The old CDs are simply too quiet and do not even make use of the proper CD.
Now Computer World is a stranger case in some regards, as the English version is different than its German release, which sounds superb to my ears. The English one has more bass and also is definitely a bit more compressed than the others even its German counterpart. I don’t think the English one is from the same source. It’s nothing that is going to kill you, but it is worth mentioning. I honestly wasn’t too bothered by it. At any rate the German version is superior. In fact, I prefer the German versions of their music.
This article rightly celebrates the fact that the best albums in Trans and Man Machine have never really sounded better. And the German version of Computer World is amazing as well. DR9-13 does not mean the end of the world. I can’t even believe I have to say this. Often it means the engineers are actually using the full capabilities of the CD.
As for noise reduction it’s a slippery slope. But no one can really argue that Kraftwerk CDs were ever supposed to have all this analogue hiss lol. The exact opposite. KW are the forerunners of the digital revolution. That isn’t to say maybe there is some extra NR applied, but I don’t hear anything too egregious on the major albums.
Regarding your last remark, about hiss, the obvious exception is Radio-Activity: this is an album positively revelling in the glory of analogue sound sources, and to have the hiss removed on that album to my mind really diminishes it, removing something i regard as an inherent part of the music. But elsewhere i agree with you, particularly on Man-Machine, which now sounds wonderful in its hiss-free incarnation!
Of course the german versions are preferable since Kraftwerk is a german band. I don’t want to listen to the Beatles in German either….
Techno-Pop is a DR11 remaster. There is no sheer loudness. It’s using the available dynamic range of the CD, which the old ones failed to do. This isn’t classical music either and does not need that kind of dynamic range.
I’m honestly just lost when you guys talk about loudness. It’s as if you are not properly volume matching anything. Turn down your volume knob. Almost no well mastered CD in existence is above DR13 for these types of albums anymore. This includes the majority of Steve Hoffman stuff. It just makes me wonder what you guys are smoking to think that DR11 is a loud album lol. No bud, DR6 is a loud album. DR11 is not even close.
I also am starting to think I prefer the English versions of a decent amount of their songs. All together these remasters were fantastic. I think people are too blown out by the bass in Computer World. Their music is pretty bassy live believe it or not. I really don’t see the problem unless your system is not a neutral tone system. It still sounds pretty good to me.
i disagree with this; having seen Kraftwerk perform live, of course there’s more bass than on the studio recordings – but that doesn’t mean the albums should be made to resemble a live performance. Bits of the 2009 Computer World are nothing short of a travesty, robbing the music of its nuance and detail, and in no small part that’s due to the bass.
Thanks for such a in-depth and interesting article! I read this when it first appeared, and revisited it now after doing a thorough comparison with the 2009 remasters and the original 80s CDs.
I’ve come to the conclusion that, for me, the originals are much superior in every way to the remasters.
I definitely prefer the original CDs, which I guess are straight copies of the original LP masters, without the unnecessary tinkering found on the remastered versions.
In my opinion, the main offender is the constant use of digital noise reduction on these remasters. I’ll take clarity – complete with tape hiss – over the sterile-sounding remasters any day.
Listening to AUTOBAHN on headphones, you can clearly hear the watery, digital artifacts at the start of the title track. The use of noise reduction, combined with the sometimes heavy handed EQ boosting the bass, takes away the clarity of the original recordings. As you mentioned, COMPUTER WORLD sounds like a mess because of these EQ changes.
RADIO-ACTIVITY sounds mostly excellent in its original CD issue, without digital artifacts and boomy bass. This is a recording that’s supposed to have noises, hum, clicks and static.
TRANS EUROPA EXPRESS might sound a little weak compared to the remaster, which had its bass boosted quite a lot, but again I feel this affects the clarity. And then there’s that horrible noise reduction again. Listen to the intro of FRANZ SCHUBERT. The synth sounds like it’s about to choke and it ain’t pretty.
Another thing I haven’t seen anyone mention before is the added reverb during the “chorus” on SPIEGELSAAL. Why alter something like that?
As pointed out in the article above, there’s quite a lot of tape hiss on DIE MENSCH MASCHINE, but the original CD sounds very dynamic with good bass. Once again, the noise reduction is quite severe in places, giving the synths a “choked” kind of quality. If I want more thumping bass I can always turn up the bass knob on my stereo.
COMPUTERWELT is the only remastered version I’ve kept. From what I understand, the German version is slightly better than the English counterpart? I’ve listened to the English remaster and thought it sounded terrible because of the compression which made the “string/organ” sound in the title track pump like crazy.
The German remaster sounds very good, and adds some much needed punch to the album, which originally sounded kind of thin to my ears. But, the bass DO sound a bit bloated at times, and the remaster can sometimes sound a bit boxy, especially compared with the original CD… But I can live with that. I think.
The remaster of ELECTRIC CAFE, or TECHNO POP as they seem to call it now, is a pointless exercise in revisionism. I have a Japanese “Black Triangle” CD which sounds great and I’m sticking with that. Sound-wise, I get the feeling they just raised the volume on the remaster.
The same goes for THE MIX and TOUR DE FRANCE.
This turned into a long post. Sorry.
Yes, 2009 Computer World not just a bit overcooked like so many digital remasters which are often the only choice on streaming such as with Spotify, but it’s actually ruined in my opinion. Upper mid / high frequencies seem to drop in and out regularly. Check out Computer Love – in particular between about 54 and 59 seconds – there’s a significant drop in higher frequencies, especially on the left channel – it’s almost as if someone tweaked down an eq gain pot, thought ‘no I don’t like that’, and quickly returned it to the original position. I find it unbelievable that this album passed any checking stages. Surely Kraftwerk cannot be involved in the process – I would say they are the last people on this planet that would allow poor production work to be passed and released. However, I can’t imagine they’re not aware?!
I had the cassette version The Mix that I bought in around 1992. That had an editing glitch in the outro where they chopped out a whole beat. I’ll have to see if that was in any other versions.
What a truly excellent, thorough, well-written review. Being a bit of a completist I actually added both the 2004 promo box and the 2009 version to my collection – I’ve only started to compare, but so far I largely agree with your comments. I’m a little less positive on Radioactivity remastered than you are though – I do agree that the hiss removal essentially changes the nature and color of the album as it takes away much of the noise I assumed was deliberate from it :). But to me the loss in character that results from that newfound cleanliness more than offsets the benefits of the extra sense of clarity and frequency range extension throughout. Autobahn and TEE / TMM (that’s where I’ve stopped so far) are no brainer wins for the remasters (2004 / 2009 / 2004 for me respectively), but for Radioactivity the late 80’s CD remains my go-to version. Thank you so much for the article – and also for pointing me in the direction of the German language remaster of Komputerwelt, will seek that one out when this confinement thing is over.